In this episode of Ecomm Cowboy, Chris Hall and Colin Dougherty are joined by John Roman (CEO of BattlBox) and Cameron Carrier (Director of Social Commerce) to talk about:
John Roman has lived the full founder cycle - scaling, exiting, and then stepping back in to buy the company back and run it again with a second-time founder mindset.
And Cameron Carrier is leading the charge on social commerce - proving that daily live content isn’t just engagement… it’s revenue.
We’re diving into round-two founders, live commerce, AI workflows, and why most brands still don’t understand Content → Commerce.
• Selling BattlBox and buying it back
• Why round-two founders operate differently
• Building 50K+ followers on WhatNot
• Daily live commerce as a real revenue engine
• Turning socials into episodic programming (BattlGames)
• Why most brands still don’t understand Content → Commerce
If you run a DTC brand, buy media, build creative, or care about where commerce is headed in 2026, this episode is for you.
Transcript from video:
Chapter 1: The Exit… and the Buyback
0:00 We move forward, and we have got two incredible operators here. John Roman, not yet. Don't bring them in yet. I've got to do a little intro here. John Roman, CEO of BattlBox. My guy sold this bad boy. Okay. He sold BattlBox, got his
0:15 exit, and one would think he'd be sipping my ties in the Caribbean, but that is not the case. He bought that bad boy back and now [laughter] he is
0:24 running Battlbox again up and to the moon. Obviously, they've got a content to commerce playbook show on Netflix, doing battle games on their YouTube. And I'll say this, I will say this, Cam, who
0:40 is now their director of social commerce, doing incredible things on whatnot, especially. And he's got an interesting story that we need to get the details on. Everyone, welcome to the show. John and Cam, get in here, boys. Get in here.
0:56 What's going on? Wow. What up, fellas?
0:59 I I can't I can't get over though the points thing. Like, you guys you guys just broke this to me and like like I'm full gamification. Delta Delta Diamond, Marriott Platinum. Like, this is this is troublesome.
1:14 Yes, it is going away. It's going away.
1:17 So, I saw the the you shared the the post. Is that like obviously he would have an idea, but have they announced this? Like is this emails emails are going out, man.
1:27 Flowing. Yeah, emails have been flowing and they're they're trying to cut our legs out from underneath us, John. And [laughter] one
1:34 one cannot sit by one cannot sit by and simply let this happen. We must band together, John. We have to.
1:43 We have to. We have to. I mean, our our uh you know, our diamond status is at risk, and I I I we can't sit by and and
1:52 ssimply let it happen. John, you know, when we first met, brother, I believe I I believe it was pre-sale. I believe at SubSummit. I'm I'm thinking I'm thinking now. I believe it was pre-sale.
2:06 And I can't remember if you had or not, but you've had the exit. Congrats. But, brother, now you're back. You are back in the saddle. The Caribbean could not
2:15 take you. You had too much energy and juice and you're back in the saddle running this thing up to the moon. But just just give us some perspective, man.
2:24 What brought you back into the game and what are you excited about now that you guys are growing Battlbox again up and to the right?
Chapter 2: Why John He Came Back
2:32 Yeah. So, so I I I wanted to check. So, the first text message you and I have back and forth is at um 2 a.m. on a Friday night. [laughter] Oh my gosh. Let's gez. Let's go.
2:49 Um, yeah, we met at at SubSummit at uh uh Chris George's infamous um after I believe so. I believe so.
2:59 Cam, you've been you you were there last year. It's a it's it's a fun time. I've had fun at a Chris George afterparty.
3:07 Yeah. The uh Yeah. So, I mean, it wasn't part of the plan, right? Like, we had our exit and and and that was it. We had um some earnout tied to staying on for a few years, but um you know to no fault of of the company that bought us. They were a spa and most people know the stories of of the spa in 2021 2022.
3:29 So lost its market cap um you know uh interest rates changing and uh it was just honestly was an arbitrage opportunity.
3:38 Yeah. and also came to the realization that I'm emotionally attached to Battle Box. Oh yeah, man.
3:45 The baby and there was an opportunity to get it back.
3:48 Um so we did it and it's been uh it's been great. It's been such a great opportunity to get it to get it back.
3:57 Man, I'm I'm glad to see you back in it because the fact is is that when you
4:04 guys are at the helm of this thing, I mean, it is a beautiful thing to watch.
4:08 And I I of course I I I parttook of the Netflix show. I'm partaking of the Battle Games show that's happening on YouTube. And I mean to me, you guys have such a just a cultural fit for, you
4:26 know, obviously your ICP and your community, but the content that you push out to that, it makes everybody endeared to you more and want to be associated with you. And so I I'm I'm very happy to see you guys back at the helm.
4:39 No, thank you. And we're we're excited to be back. And, you know, part of when we got it back, it's like, okay, how do we how do we move this forward? how do
4:47 we grow? And um you know, we knew social selling was was a piece. So, so Cameron was had been focusing on social selling.
4:57 He was on the marketing team and then he just quickly honestly built built his own role with with all the success he
Chapter 3: Whatnot Becomes #2 Channel
5:05 was having on all these channels, launched um whatnot in in April. And it's it's our second largest channel.
5:13 obviously number one paying the website, but he's already surpassed Amazon, um, eBay, Walmart. It's it literally is our number two channel in less less than a year, which is crazy.
5:23 You've got to be kidding me. You've got to be kidding me. Okay, Cam. Okay, you don't hold out on us here because I have been preaching on this show. You You can bear witness. He loves this.
5:37 I mean, I think he's an investor and whatnot at this point. I'm pretty sure, you know, I'll be honest. I'll be honest. I want to be on what not myself. I just can't figure out what to sell and when to sell it. But but I this this flabbergast me because I have been
5:52 pushing this. I think everybody's asleep on whatnot simply because it's new and you know it's got a bit of a different feel for than a lot of people in the DTOC game are used to. Um man, tell us tell us about building that up. I think
6:08 you got 50,000 followers there right now. Tell us about building that up, man. Your schedule. I think you got a bunch of you got like you got so many shows per week.
6:18 It's non-stop. It's um it's a beast. It really is. Um you know, it it started with a test show back April last year. Um I think we did like 3500 in sales in like an hour and a half not knowing what
6:34 we were doing. Um and that was just all systems ago after that. It was, okay, let's let's lean into this and figure it out. Um, you mentioned Tik Tok shop earlier. I really have to attribute a lot of success to whatnot from Tik Tok shop. Wow.
6:54 Uh, that was that was my baby pre pre-W whatnot. Um, still is. It just happens to be like a toddler now. Um,
7:02 but we built such a community there of creators that was able to kind of act as a pipeline to talent to hosts. Um, so as soon as we started going from, you know, an in-house host and we're live twice a week to being able to add these additional bodies to to being live seven days a week, one, two, three, three days or uh, three shows a day.
7:27 It's um it's a beast to sum that all up for sure.
Chapter 4: Scaling Live Commerce (65 Shows/Month)
7:31 That so you've got I mean Colin, think about this. They've got three shows per day with multiple creators. That's incredible.
7:43 Can Can you talk a little bit about building up and building out that total capacity for headcount schedule? cuz I I
7:50 mean I think of that and I hear gosh this is kind of like a logistics build out partner nightmare like how did you
7:57 kind of walk jog and run with that because obviously you can't go out of the gate and like tomorrow you can't like brands just can't have this level how how did they kind of start this up?
8:08 Yeah. Um I think we were very methodical um in just kind of people owning roles.
8:16 Um, as soon as we seen a bit of success and and everybody was kind of burning the midnight oil on this, just cuz it was kind of like a side project to start, um, we started adding what we call showrunners, um, on the back end.
8:31 Um, which allowed for hosts to own hosting, you know, dictate the energy in the room. Um, and there's someone, a showrunner on the back end, um, you know, pinning products, prompting bids, moderating the chat. So, it's it's it's really becoming just like this oiled machine of of people with with
8:54 determined roles that I find very interesting. So, it's not just, hey, we've got a great body who can be on on screen, on brand, do their thing, host it, keep the energy
9:09 high, but you you've got on the backside, you got a showrunner who's active in the comments and doing this and here pinning that. I mean, I think some of the mechanics here, Cam, I I
9:18 don't I don't think even, you know, the DDC community at large even knows the mechanics of doing this, but that that sounds like a crucial piece is having
9:25 that person on the backside working in tandem with the host. Sure is. I mean, I, you know, I'll parlay that one into a little even deeper and and showing a peak behind the curtain is we built a um we vi coded rather a AI tool.
9:41 Stop. [laughter] Yeah. So, uh, everybody's offsite, right? And everybody needs to be there's a lot of dollar starts on on whatnot.
9:50 Whatnot is positioning themselves as a as a platform that you can come and and get a deal on brands that you know. So when that's the positioning, everyone's
9:59 on there looking for a deal. Um, so everybody needs to be on the same page of like, hey, what are we comfortable with products going for? So there's like a dashboard that is a shared environment between showrunners and hosts that we vive coded. Um, that allows everybody to
10:14 be align. It builds product lineups um that of course we can deviate from on requests or or pivoting. Um, but that it
10:23 has a a selling window that breaks out all the the metric, all the the unit economics, um, margins. It's it's pretty robust.
10:33 Wow. Wow. I mean, [snorts] Chris Chris and I have talked adnauseium about this on the show that brands are going to start to be empowered by folks like you who are vibe coding and bringing these tools inside and basically becoming I mean, you're becoming like six people basically [laughter] without without but
10:52 with how powerful you are and I mean it's incredible. It's incredible that you are doing that now at the level of scale that you are and it's working.
Chapter 5: The AI Tool Behind Their Live Sales
11:01 It's it's it's unbelievable.
11:03 Some something I want to something I want to throw in there really quick. Um you know we're running Cam I think you run 65 shows on average uh a month right
11:12 now. Um which is around 200 hours of live selling. But just to to brands listening like so in April of last year
11:20 and I have a cheat sheet our our master tracker um in April we ran 10 hours total in May we ran 26 hours total June 60 July 99 August 107 September 135 October 171 November 195 so it we we
11:37 spent 36 eight months ramping up so so on the initial question of like scheduling like it was a it was a very slow walk walking a little bit faster.
11:47 Now we're moving of of putting putting these additional shows on. It wasn't like all all at once. We we were
11:55 definitely slow and methodical and and built it in a manner where it it was it was scalable. It just it just took us, you know, six, seven, eight months.
12:04 John, this has got to make you feel like a proud papa here. I mean for your team to be executing like this, find a new
12:12 opportunity, you know, grow it up, scale it up, tools on the backside that [laughter] can help, you know, help execute. I mean, this has got to make you feel like a like a proud popup of the team.
12:21 It's so it's so exciting. It's re-energizing, right? Like it's this literally the sales channel that that Cameron launched less than a year ago that didn't exist prior that now is our
12:30 second biggest channel. It's just um it's mind-blowing. And and the approach that I love um is that at the end of the
12:38 day, you know, this year even, you know, the membership, the the I won't call it a subscription box, but the membership
12:45 um is still 70% of the business. So, it's still a large chunk. Um it's it's gone down in percentage, not because it's gone down in revenue, but because
12:53 of these other channels, but whatnot also serves as as top ofunnel for the membership. Um which is great. It's not
Chapter 6: Why Every Brand Should Consider Whatnot
13:00 there's no cannibalization. You're seeing people maybe get a deal on a product, but they're then getting introduced to the brand, which, you
13:09 know, all roads lead back to the membership. So, we're seeing this this person buy and get a good deal, but then
13:16 they see what BattlBox is about. You know, there's contests they can enter, QR codes they can scan to really understand and and and see see what's
13:25 going on. And we have a video of of Brandon on our site that um you know these marketplace customers get to see and it explains hey you know yes you
13:33 bought this item over here but like let's let let us tell you about BattlBox a little bit. So it's it's a highly profitable channel that also
13:41 serves as top ofunnel for the the core business which is it checks all the boxes which is mind-blowing. I'm blown away.
13:51 Yeah, this is incredible. I mean I mean Chris Chris and I have talked on the show and I have tried to sell him every every way to Sunday on [laughter]
13:58 subscription and membership and I'm telling you I am I am for it. I am for it. I mean he's finally for it folks. Uh but it
14:07 this I mean this is incredible what what you guys are doing. I I selfishly would love to hear more about how you guys are
14:14 then empowering creators on platforms like, you know, a TikTok or or these types of things where we've seen a lot of when we've had a lot of guests on the show where they they're kind of establishing kind of quote unquote longer relationships with creators and
14:29 they're kind of investing even more. How are you guys approaching creators in 2026? What do you want to get out of them?
14:36 Yeah, I mean it's uh it's an extension of the brand. Um you know, they they're champions to the
14:43 brand. Um you know, these people that uh they sell for us on on whatnot, they they are underneath the the BattlBox logo. Um so I I you know, we give them all the tools um at their disposal and uh we let them run. You know, the hosts
14:59 have have agency. Um it's it's totally empowering them. Uh they know our principles. We meet every Friday just to kind of talk shop, what's working, what's not, um, and go put it to practice.
15:11 You know, one of the things that I know we don't use it as much anymore, but I I also know that that the team is is coming up with versions of it, but um,
15:20 it might have been, I guess, almost a year and a half ago, um, Cameron created a Discord group, um, where we invited all of our creators from all channels, right? TikTok shop or Instagram if if they're a creator for us. Um we wanted a
15:35 a central hub to talk to and we played back and forth. Do we go Slack? Do we do we ended up going Discord? Um but but it
15:43 was really cool because it was like a community within the community and you know that ultimately allowed
15:50 the relationships to kind of be fostered a little bit more. Um, and then to Cam's point, obviously there's additional discussions, but it's this creator funnel has has served a purpose of of being funnel for, you know, potential hosts and and
Chapter 7: Subscription + Live = Flywheel
16:06 a lot of the hosts were TikTok shop creators and still are where they're they have videos of the usual TTS um of our products, but now we've just given
16:14 them another uh another touch point to to interact with us. You know what I love about this is that it reminds me it
16:23 reminds me some Colin of what Civil the YouTuber gaming incredible creator. It reminds me what he was talking about on
16:29 the show yesterday about have finding a way to bring creators a little further inside the fold and you know associate
16:38 them with the company. I I want to know this Cam and you've got all these creators you got all these shows man you
16:45 guys live hours are going up up up up man. What happens when somebody's sick and they check out? I think you know,
16:53 John tweeted a very interesting post very here recently about you stepping in and hosting this thing yourself. And tell tell us about that experience and what it was like for you.
17:04 Yeah, man. I mean, I I watch it. Um, I I give coaching tips, you know, so so who am I not to step into the fold when when I'm asking the guys to to do exactly this and they just can't this time around. Um, so let me hop in and
17:20 test my chops. Um, you know, I I receive a a monthly battle box, so I had probably 15 items of of gear on hand and and built a couple mystery boxes. And there we go.
17:35 It's cool because you talked about community earlier just with with our brand and it is what we preach, right?
17:40 But what whatnot has built too is also very community- based. Um so even though I was someone behind the scenes, lot of
17:49 chatter in the chat with me as a moderator with with you know the customer base, the people engaging um we have rapport. So, you know, I I got to hop in there and everybody's like, "Well, that's
18:04 Cam." So, you know, it it really wasn't even like a foreign environment. Uh just just jumped in and and and got right to action.
18:12 Um credit where credit where credit's due though, like you found out um an hour and a half before a morning show
18:20 that uh one of the hosts didn't feel well and wasn't going to going to be able to make it. And and I mean, you had to make a game time decision. And I
18:28 think the path of least resistance, especially with 65 shows a month, is, you know, let's just reschedule that
18:34 show. Let's just kick that show show uh down down the road a little bit. But but you were like, no, like we're going for a new revenue goal this month. Like needs to be done. So So major props.
18:46 Thank you, John.
18:47 John laughs at me a bit. Um I have a lot of restaurant analogies. All right, [laughter] let's go. So, you know, running it like a restaurant manager, I I post the schedule. Um, if you cannot make your
19:01 hift, find a cover. And you know what happens when someone can't find a cover, a lots of time, the uh the manager gets to waiting tables. So, that's right, baby.
19:10 That's [laughter] what I stepped in and did, man. And I did what I had to do. I waited tables. John, I think that you gotta find a way to somehow like get Cam like married into your family or something, you know, or you got to like find some way for him to just stay around forever because that kind of energy is what we need in 2026.
19:33 And and I am convinced I am convinced in the era of AI and all of the capabilities, I am convinced that that is how marketers and operators can entrench themselves in a positive way.
19:48 I' I've always got work. Why? Because man, I'm willing to even get on screen and be the talent and find a way to make it happen live and in living color. I love that. And I think that we need that kind of energy in our industry this year. Am I wrong, Colin? I think that's the I think that's the path.
Chapter 8: Stepping In When the Host Is Sick
20:06 That's the path. I I would ask you guys, you know, like you guys are you guys have been in it for a while. And so, do you guys have any kind of
20:14 characteristics that you're seeing where if a brand follows and has these characteristics, they have to be on whatnot? Or are you just saying, "Hey,
20:23 every brand should be on whatnot." or is it a couple characteristics where you're like I am amazed that you are in this window and you're not doing it because it would be a home run.
20:35 Um I would say it's it's it's more brands than not. Um I would venture it's
20:42 probably difficult to find a brand that shouldn't be on there. the the reality is it's um you know it it functions like your
20:50 traditional shorts, reals, Tik Tok, but everyone on the platform is it's only to buy, right? So you're you're you're so far further along in the funnel of purchasing like if you're opening up whatnot, you're there to buy. Um, and
21:06 what I what we've noticed in the short less than a year we've been on there is um you know if anybody's followed whatnot um in the in the in the raising the the the money they raised last year in the beginning of the year they raised
21:22 um a couple hundred million like a five billion dollar valuation they raised again in October at a 11 billion valuation around so with certain in the same year they doubled valuation and they're they're spending that money. I mean, it was hard to miss Mr. Beast um
21:40 and the Super Bowl where he went on and gave gave away ridiculous items. Um they're investing so much in building the audience on there and and and building the amount of users such a focus that it's all categories. There's
21:57 there's not a category where um they're they're not interested like it's it's all systems go on their end. they they are the winning horse right now and they want to ensure that they that they win the race and the only way to do that is just to go as fast as you can uh a mile wide and a mile deep and that's
22:14 what they're doing. So I would say all brands um there's be it's going to be the exception to the rule the one that doesn't doesn't uh doesn't have a home there. I I love that. I love that so much. I love it so much. And this this to me, John, feels like a natural extension.
22:35 It's live, but it feels like a natural extension of the content to commerce track that you guys have paved so well and continue to pave well on other platforms. Now, I know we had the Southern Survival series on Netflix.
22:52 BattlGames is coming back for another season. Episodic, you know, you got people applying to to participate. People can win 25K. And tell us about what's coming up next with battle games.
Chapter 9: Netflix, Battle Games & Moonshot Marketing
23:04 What are you excited about? And also, I'll say, man, to me, this feels like moonshot marketing. I mean, it's a big swing that has a big payoff if it goes well. Tell tell us about what you're excited about with BattlGames coming up.
23:17 Um, yeah. So, Battle Games is uh I mean, it's just unfathomable what we've what we've built. We have um uh we have a team member that she's been with the company a while, Shay. Um she's she's leading leading the way of Battle Games
23:33 season 3. And uh the the she's never short of ideas. Um and the concept she's come up with, it's it's just taking it to the next level. Um it's become such a production. Uh it's become a very expensive production, but you know, we sell sponsorships to to cover the cost
23:50 of it. Um it's just it's it's just a cool moment because you're putting um typically going by season 2 10 BattlBox
23:59 customers in this competition and giving one of them 25K. It's just like a just an ultimate ultimate content community. It's kind of cool cuz it's full farmtotable. So you have you have the the BattlBox customers there. You have the Battlebox team members typically. I
24:16 think last year we had about 15 of our employees there. Um you have you have the vendors that are that are brand sponsors. So all of the
24:25 the the brands that you see in the battle boxes were there. And then starting last year we also have all the tech partners. So last year we had um
24:34 Wonder and Claio and Prella um Kugi. We just we just had a bunch of B2B partners of ours that were there too. So it was like this it was the full ecosystem um from actual end consumer to the technology that supports it all.
24:50 Everyone was there hanging out and it's incredible.
24:53 Yeah. It's just like a surreal surreal moment.
24:57 Wow. That that um you know I'm sure for a lot of brands doing like doing something like that feels scary. It feels oh my gosh, what's this bill going to be? But I love this piece about involving other partners, other brands, even even other people of the ecosystem
25:14 that normally you wouldn't think of, B2B partners, etc. getting involved and and you know, obviously I think hopefully that lightens the load on cost. But I that is so smart and I wish I wish that
25:28 more brands would take this kind of let's turn our social channels into a TV show. quite literally.
25:35 I wish that more people would take this bet because to me it just it seems like it's paying off so well for you guys. Yeah. People people want to connect.
25:43 People want connection and um content is is such a such a way to do it. It's incredible. That's incredible.
25:52 Well, gentlemen, we know that you are busy men and we know that there's more live shows coming up. Uh, man, we really
Chapter 10: The Future of Social Commerce
26:00 appreciate you guys making the time and I hope that everybody takes the charge.
26:05 Go get on whatnot, crawl, walk, run, and find the way. I feel like this is breaking news here that everybody needs to pay attention to, and we really
26:14 appreciate you guys joining the show, and we hope you'll come back. Oh, we'll be back. Go have us. Awesome. Thank you, gentlemen. Vermont.
